Nothing to Gain

We all know how just how terrible and hauntingly atrocious the 90s were for thrash metal. I learned my lesson about giving these garbage ass albums a chance after the still painful "Roots", or the similarly abysmal "Masquerade in Blood", and I've been extremely distant towards these releases. However, a moment of boredom made me remember this release by the almighty Vio-Lence, and despite of all the previous suffering and despair that has been caused by these 90s thrash albums, I decided to give this a listen. It is actually not terrible. It's obviously a massive step backwards from "Oppressing the Masses", let alone the unrivaled debut album. But it's sadly one of the best thrash albums of this period.

For the most part, the main issue with this record is that nothing much is happening. Vio-Lence's music was great because of the sheer intensity, the complete ignorance of all the songwriting principles and the over the top aggression and viciousness that were presented by the thrash essentials, such as "Eternal Nightmare" or "Serial Killer". But on this album, the band attempted to be more experimental and complex. Having removed the intensity and the aggression on almost all of the songs on this album, the band created an empty void in the musical space. These long, enervated, exhausting songs that are mediocre at best make you wonder if this is really the same band that wrote that legendary thrash debut that hit the market in 1988.

Despite the fact that this isn't a great record overall, there are some moments on it that are without a doubt impressive. "Twelve Gauge Justice" is actually one of the strongest Vio-Lence songs overall, and it is a vivid outsider on the entire album. That song is oldschool, straightforward thrash metal with speed, aggression, and an absolutely jaw-dropping solo. I did NOT see that solo coming from these aggressive maniacs, but they wrote a beautiful and emotional guitar solo that was one of the most memorable moments of the entire discography of Vio-Lence. Similarly good is "Ageless Eyes", which has some pretty beefy riffs and more aggressive vocals than on the rest of the record. As if the guys knew that most of the "new" songs are going to be pretty damn difficult to sit through, they threw in a couple of crushers in the spirit of their first two records, to make it worthwhile. This approach is way better and is worthy of appreciation than not giving a shit and making the entire album experimental and novel, regardless of what you think about the departure from the band's roots.

But the rest of the songs on the record... The title should tell you all about them. "Nothing to gain". They are slow, sluggish, uninspired, enervated, and you just want to turn this shit off after a minute and a half in each song. The music isn't going anywhere. Take "Killing My Words" as an example, where the band makes you wait for something to happen with these bland, grey riffs and the hypnotic drum beat, with the unusually weak vocals of Sean Killian. What the hell happened? This was one of the most vicious and utterly pitiless thrash bands on Earth. A multitude of things are missing from these songs for them to pull off these lengths, such as 5:45 or 6:56. Aggression, creativity, color and variety, for starters. Vio-Lence used to be aware of this, and they knew all about how to make songs that leave literally all thrash bands behind, it's just that the 90s got to them.

Thank Satan for the fact that the band came back with "Let the World Burn", which is their closest work to the legendary "Eternal Nightmare" to date, and features newfound hatred and energy. Albums like these are always forgivable, if the band realizes that this was a terrible idea, and quickly returns to their original self. If it takes a roughly 29-year-long hiatus, that's perfectly fine. As long as the band returns to their original self, no problem. After all is said and done, let us listen to that killer EP "Let the World Burn" by Vio-Lence, and let this record disembody among the grey pages of history.

Vio-lence's greatest asset was always their speed, their next greatest asset was their riffing ability. Guess what happens when those get neglected? The band starts getting tedious and lethargic. The things that made them into an appealing band have been largely eroded away to create some weird early hybrid of thrash and groove metal. The curious thing about that is that you can't completely accuse Vio-lence of bowing to trends since this was recorded less than a month after Cowboys from Hell was released and likely written even further back than that. It only got released during groove metal's surge by the label for the sake of making a buck. That same cynicism and lack of passion plagues the band as well as the company that promoted them, not having the confidence to release their material sooner. I guess you can't blame them when the album is as lackluster as this.

Vio-lence seemingly let everything fall apart on this album. The speed that they were famed for is no longer present except for a few songs. Many of these songs move along at a middling pace with riffs that are unexciting and dull. You can tell just by going into "Atrocity" that things are different and lacking the fury of the last two albums with how it slugs along. The only decent parts of the song seem to be Perry Strickland's still-talented drum battering and the melody to the howling gang vocals. Unfortunately, the songs don't vary much from each other, so this ends up being the case across most of the album with few exceptions. What the slower and less-pounding riffage drags down, Killian's silly attempts at singing finish off. And this is not helped at all by the static-loaded, weak, tinny production that sucks whatever life there was left on this thing right out of it. It robs the punch from the guitars, couple that with Killian's wailing, and this becomes thoroughly stressful and unpalatable.

There are two decent songs on here that are worth keeping, strangely enough. "Twelve Gauge Justice" which captures the energy of old Vio-lence. It thrashes hard with a neck-breaking rhythm and a massive gang-shouted chorus that makes you want to go on your own hunt for bloody justice with a shotgun. Then there's "No Chains" which is one of the groovier songs, but this one actually puts some muscle behind its riff and doesn't lollygag like the others that try to stomp, this one actually is a stomper. Aside from these two numbers, I get nothing but boredom and weak production which makes me wonder why these guys didn't try harder when it was obvious they had some spark in them. Say what you will about Machine Head, but at least the debut of Flynn's future band had livelier grooves, cleaner production, and a meaty guitar tone. Nothing to Gain feels lightweight, dull, and tinny instead, making it a very boring and unpleasant album.

Maybe it was for the best that this band broke up after this. Nothing to Gain ironically ends up losing most of what gave this band their appeal. Their thrashing energy is gone and the grooves that replace them have no crunch or muscle. Two decent songs sit alone amongst a bunch of forgettable duds. The boring mid-paced music on here has any remaining thunder stolen from it by weak, tinny production. The only decent vocals are those of the gang shouts, and Killian tries singing more melodically on some of these songs and he does not do well at all. I don’t know what was going on, but this album is tired, weak, and doesn’t put much force behind its grooves at all. On reviews of Vio-lence’s earlier albums, I talked about how Sean Killian was an obstacle to enjoying the music, here it seems to be the music acts as an obstacle to itself with his vocals just being salt in the wound. This was just dull and pitiful.

While Vio-Lence largely managed to avoid a number of the 90s pitfalls that many of their thrash peers faced in that decade, their third full-length Nothing to Gain was clearly the portent of a doomed band. A portent that turned out true, once Rob Flynn's other band Machine Head started to take off, with a sound far trendier and more relevant to the times, leaving any real hopes of the Bay Area's wildest second tier thrash band in the dust. And dust there was aplenty as I dug this disappointment out from whatever deep storage it would soon return to. Now, to be clear, this is not an abomination-tier letdown record the likes of which most of the 'Big Four' releases throughout the same decade. It's no Diabolus in Musica, Risk or Load. In fact, it's vaguely recognizable as the sort of thrash metal that Sean Killian and crew erupted with on their demos and debut album. But damn if this isn't one of the most exhausted sounding affairs to ever emerge from a West Coast thrash act of the golden age.

Oppressing the Masses, despite its video rotation for "World in a World" and a high visibility through Atlantic Records, might not have lived up to everyone's expectations of its predecessor, but at least that was still a fun record with a half-dozen quality tracks, and in some instances, the same kinetic intensity I can recall from my first exposure in 1988. This can not be said of Nothing to Gain, an album which all too rarely delivers anything resembling an interesting riff or an exciting vocal line. Killian could still hit some of those higher range, frantic lines that put him in a similar category as legends like Bobby Blitz or Joey Belladonna, and he does so over tracks like "Colour of Life", but there is definitely a more morose side to him, exploring a lower and mid range, attempting to splice in that same edgy feeling he gets in his upper register, but coming up dry, even lazy. The riffs are an assembly of dullards which only seem to electrify when a lead is rifling off over a faster bridge, so there was no real amount of Killian that was going to save anything outside of maybe "Colour". I am more often reminded of mediocre tunes by Exodus and Sacred Reich than Eternal Nightmare, all of which might share similar structures and chord choices, but feel like the differential between a drunk with erectile dysfunction and a Viagra addict with a Bowflex collection.

The mix is deeper, darker and meatier than the previous albums, which compensates slightly for the general lack of virility. The drums sound fine, thunderous and reverberating, and I do like the punch on the rhythm guitars, especially when they breakaway from the band and churn out into some riff that seems like it might get good...until it just doesn't. The bass also has a good tone, and it's given a few chances to thrum along on its own, but none of this matters when the songs seem so second...strike that, fourth or fifth rate compared to Bay Area classics that were circulating just a few years prior. Nothing to Gain does not sound like a lot of effort was exerted in its creation, maybe more like a wrapping up of a couple lackluster tunes the band still had lying around for a few years after they gave it their go on the first two. We were sort of warned to this, since the 1991 EP before it was forgettable at best, but let's face it...for those of us who were adolescent thrashers through all that brilliance the decade before, it was never a fun thing to watch a band with such potential put out to pasture. This holds itself just above disaster level, but even its few passable tracks aren't even fit as B-sides for an "I Profit" or "Officer Nice", and it's just something I would left in the vault, especially in looking back at what an achievement that debut was.

-autothrall
http://www.fromthedustreturned.com

Vio-lence were always a second tier thrash band. Fairly talented but late to the scene and not the best songwriters, destined to never quite make a big impact. Consistent though, their 3 albums are all decent thrash efforts. This album has more of a groove element, a sign of the times symbolised by Robb Flynn's departure to start Machine Head shortly after.

This is the last album Vio-lence released. Although I'm listening to it as I type, I haven't listened to the other albums for quite some time so I can't make a fair comparison to their past. As mentioned above this album has more of a thrash-groove style, and several parts seem like Robb Flynn clearly lifted them for later use in Machine Head (a groove riff here, a bass line there). The most annoying aspect of this album is the near-endless gang vocals in almost every chorus! I'm not a big fan of gang vocals, I associate it more with hardcore music which I dislike. Exodus were also guilty of overusing this vocal style at one point. Speaking of Exodus, this album sort of reminds me of a lesser Exodus during their lean years, but not as insulting as that sounds!

'Atrocity' is a decent opener despite the annoying chorus. 'Twelve Gauge Justice' has the same problem, but is saved by a superb transition into a very good guitar solo. The rest of the album isn't too varied, with the exception of the creepy intro to 'No Chains'. 'Colour of Life' is an excellent closer, even the gang vocals don't piss me off on that one. Basically, 'Nothing to Gain' is a collection of quality thrash riffs, less good groove parts, very standard drumming and a bass guitar occasionally in there somewhere under the average production. This sounds like a typical early 90's thrash production, enough experience to make it sound ok despite lower and lower budgets as the scene died.

Two particular highlights: Firstly, the guitar solos are great. Better than most of the solos Machine Head conjured up until Phil Demmel joined them years later to reunite with Flynn. Despite my love/hate relationship with MH, these 2 guys make a really good guitar partnership. The other highlight on this album would be Sean Killian's vocals. Frankly, he's tuneless and occasionally awful, but it somehow fits the music nicely! It's one of the things i love about thrash, the vocalists don't have to be good singers in the traditional sense.

Overall I think this is a decent slab of thrash, it definitely doesn't have as much groove as some people claim. Groove metal is in there but not to the point of distraction if you dislike that style. Vocals may not be to everyones taste. Solos are cool, riffs are very good, songs are enjoyable if not classic. But considering this came out at the end of thrash's first run, i'd say it's pretty damn good and a necessary addition to any thrash collection.

Recommended tracks: Twelve Gauge Justice, No Chains, Colour of Life

Fuck you early 90's music! Fuck you!!! Oh yeah, the post-'92 bullshit like groove metal and...ugh...grunge clogged the airwaves like Joe Don Baker's arteries after a meatball hoagie. As we all know a number of great metal bands sucked the dick of the times to stay relevant, changing their sounds and alienating core fans in the process. Those who didn't fell off the map. Vio-Lence, on their third and final album "Nothing To Gain", kinda decided to play both cards, combining groove with their classic brand of thrash. Did it work? Well...

Playing the groove card usually means dumbing down your sound whether you're a talented guitarist or not. Robb Flynn and Phil Demmell has basically done just that. Like Dimebag before them they have traded in their blazing guitar duels for droning grooves and lifeless riffs, though that being said, the two of them still reach out and unleash some solid riffs and solos when they can. But taking these guys' futures into consideration, I'll bet they fucking liked the groove. The drumming of Perry Strickland is as dull as ever, while poor Dean Dell's great bass gets buried somewhat in the mix. Not terrible but far less prevalent than on the last two albums. Sean Killian actually shows some variety in his voice. Droning and crooning mixed with his typical thrash shouts and yells, not mention on one track (I forget which) he actually attempts to sing! It's choppy and amateurish at best, but he friggin' tried! Killian has come full circle.

I'll admit I don't hate groove as much as most other, but it does get quite irritating when it wants to, and that's pretty often. Here, Vio-Lence mixes it with their thrash to make a series of uneven results. First off, we have two awesome songs and one complete shit song. The shit song is the opener "Atrocity", and how appropriate is that? It's five straight minutes of bland groove nonsense, never picking up or getting juicier or thrashier. The two awesome songs are "Twelve Gauge Justice" ("Shotgun Justice?") and the closer "Color of Life", a pair of solid balls-out thrashers that harken back to the band's earlier stuff. "Killing My Words" is also a pretty solid mid-paced thrasher. Everything else is basically a mish-mash of something well done spoiled by something crappy. For example, "Psychotic Memories" has fearsome Killian vocals and some genuinely creepy gang vox, but it's spoiled by the repetitious riffage. "Welcoming Party/This Is The System" is four minutes too long, plagued by a boring intro and more droning similar to that on "Atrocity". "Ageless Eyes" is another solid thrasher, but ruined by Killian's industrialized vocals and some lame backing vocals, the exact opposite of "Psychotic Memories".

Overall, I don't recommend this unless you're a real severe thrash fan or a Vio-Lence completest. Some of the songs kick ass but most are just aa mish-mash of potential gone wrong. Additionally, the performance of much of the band is a bit bland, sounding much like they're just going through the motions. Though I was born a child of the 90's, I can say that, even though it was replaced by other crap, I'm glad that most of the music of my decade is dead and gone.

Some would say that thrash metal was on its way out circa 1993, but it sure as hell didn’t resign itself to go quietly, and this final testament to the legacy of the famous Bay Area scene via Vio-Lence is all the proof that is really needed. At worst, it functions as an uneven compromise between the glory days of “Oppressing The Masses” and “Eternal Nightmare” with that of the emergent half-thrash/groove sound, which Robb Flynn had yet to be fully taken over by. Whether the band decides to slay at full speed or take the gradual build up towards a few mountain peaks, the sound on here is still pretty far removed from the mushy, down-tuned mess that would dominate “Burn My Eyes” and a number of other hypnotic albums where grunge elements had latched themselves onto the guitars and vocals like a malevolent parasite.

While bearing in mind that this was actually recorded a good bit before the official release, there is definitely a noted influence of some trends that became even more pronounced by ’93. The songs have slowed down a bit, even more so than the moderate scaling back from the previous album with regard to its own predecessor, and at times take on a somewhat Pantera-like feel. A single listen to “Killing My Words” and “Atrocity” show a familiarity with “Cowboys From Hell” in the groovy drum work and soloing style. In fact, the most drastic change present here is that the lead work has been mellowed out into something much more melodic, restrained, and lacking the initial Slayer-inspired madness that has typified the style for much of the 80s and continued to show a lot of influence in death metal circles.

But for the most part, this album is more informed by the scaled back nature of albums along the lines of “Souls Of Black”, “South Of Heaven”, and to a small extent “The Black Album”. Instead of cutting heads for the entire duration and attempting to out riff every other band that came out of San Francisco between 1984 and 1988, the songs tend to have a more epic character and only occasionally revert back to the glorious madness of days past. The two obvious examples are the ones with the quirky two title labels that were probably an idea borrowed from early Black Sabbath. These songs are consistently heavy and menacing, but only kick up the aggression for a little while, climaxing with a reference back to the frenzied speed of 1988 in a few quick bursts. Many cite this slowed down character as clashing with Killian’s heavily percussive shout, but his work on here is adequate, suffering maybe in the sense that he doesn’t pull off that gritty melodic yell quite as well as James Hetfield does.

The stalwart old school fanatic who wants his thrash utterly relentless and faster than the speed of light does have some representation on here as well. The common favorite is the violently jarring mix of gang choruses and percussive guitar shotgun blasts in “Twelve Gauge Justice”, which is probably the closest to an authentic musical representation of what a handful of vigilantes taking on an army of street gangsters would sound like. “Colour Of Life” ups the ante even further with a shorter dose of rapid fire riffing, almost revisiting the triumphant spirit of “Serial Killer” off the “Eternal Nightmare” release. In fact, either one of these two songs is just as worthy of the mid to late 80s glory days of thrash as any song I’ve heard from that era.

Ultimately, “Nothing To Gain” should probably be treated more as a 1991 release than a 1993 one, given that the sound is ultimately more tuned in with that year and it was around the time that this was finalized. It doesn’t quite have as many riffs as “Time Does Not Heal”, nor does it succeed in being as catchy as “Souls Of Black”, but this was a superior direction to the somewhat less than stellar musical compromise that was “Countdown To Extinction”, let alone the complete abandonments of the genre that were “The Black Album” and “Sound Of White Noise”. Don’t let the year of release or the fact that Robb Flynn’s name is still in the lineup fool you, this is far removed from the age of mediocrity and failure that was soon to follow.

Originally submitted to (www.metal-observer.com) on March 7, 2011.

This is Vio-lence's most uninspired and dull effort. All this begins with the lame name itself. Obviously Vio-lence proved themselves before in their previous two albums, and had nothing to gain. So they spat out their most mediocre songs and put it under an album.

There is a severe lack of violence here, The songs on this album are dull, sub-standard groove metal tracks, Sean Killian's vocals don't work this way. Rob Flynn and Phil Demmel started their machine head tendencies here. The lyrics aren't edgy, disgusting, intelligent, catchy or funny. The drummer was half asleep in the studio, he uses his drums so sparingly. There is little in the way of variety, basically a slowed down version of their previous album. After the slight step down but still solid 'Oppressing the masses'. Vio-lence ran out of ideas and just changed with the trends, Rob flynn later went full time with his own band machine head. Groove metal maybe considered inferior form of metal by many, But there are still solid albums such as 'Vulgar display of power' or 'Chaos A.D.'. They atleast were solid groove riffs and they had a sense of aggression with them and friendly lyrics. Which is the most important thing in a groove metal album.

The only track worth noticing is 'atrocity'. They do something new and have some of their older strengths to be found here. If you're looking for a fun, violent thrash metal ride, I suggest the first album, 'Eternal Nightmare' by the same band. Trust me, you won't be disappointed. You'd be surprised as to why the talented duo of Rob and Phil are messing around with 3rd class groove riffs on this album. This was 1993, So there were plenty of better albums around this time. This album isn't even groove to be honest, It's more like 'alternative-groove'. There are 2 good moshpit pleasing songs on this album. Overall totally ignorable. Maybe Machine head fans will find this interesting.

This is definitely a different approach for San Francisco Bay Area thrashers Vio-lence. They were first known for their relentless doses of choppy, riff-charged thrash metal that jerked the listener back and forth with their unorthodox structures and blistering speed, and then with their sophomore release juxtaposed slower passages and crushing middle breaks to the faster dynamic of their sound. On their third effort, more emphasis was put on the establishment of a solid rhythm. The slower parts here are used as a sort of ‘rising action’, which leads to a climax that comes either as a section with faster riffs, or solos with harmonized leads that at times have subtle key changes to gain more interest from the listener, and ‘falling action’ that is brought forth by utilizing the original theme of the song. The slower riffs dominate this album, establishing a punchy, bass-heavy sound, that will more often than not turn away fans of the first two Vio-lence records, though these dirge-like riffs (mostly enjoyable themselves), make the faster, thrashier parts of the album shine through even brighter.

There are three things that stand out on this record besides the emphasis on slow build-ups and groovish riffs that veteran listeners of this band will take notice of almost instantly. The most obvious change is a lack of ferocity from vocalist Sean Killian. On this record he is a mad man no more. He utilizes whispered and spoken word vocals on parts of songs, on more than half of the songs on the album. These are done decently for the most part, adding more to the feeling of the slower riffs, and even adding a dark tinged atmosphere to, and I’m not lying, the use of clean guitar on this album. While he does do his share of trademark punkish yelling, more often than not you will hear the less abrasive side of him.

Another change is with the gang vocals. As a big fan of Vio-lence, the gang vocals are one of the key reasons why this band attracted me so much. Previously, they were single-toned group shouts, which worked awesomely wherever they were used. On this album, however, the gang vocals are sometimes half-sung, which will definitely sound awkward to a first time listener of this album. It’ll make you have one of those “What the fuck?” moments for sure, but the riffs underneath are catchy and headbangable enough to push this aside. “Pain of Pleasure/Virtues of Vice” is the only song on here that uses the classic Vio-lence gang chants, which appear towards the end of the song in the form of “BLEED FOR ME! BLEED FOR ME!”. Old fans of the band will definitely take a liking to that song.

The final change is one that is a little more welcoming, having to do with the guitar solos. While there aren’t as many as the previous albums had, they are still here, and they are definitely constructed better and more thought-out. Gone are the quick 5 second pentatonic shredfests, and in the place of them are more minor key, neoclassical-ish styled leads. Imagine the middle part of “Officer Nice” having more improvisation in the lead guitar, and you’ll start to get a picture of what I’m talking about.

People will gripe about this album being too slow, but there are fast thrashers on here that shall be mentioned. “Twelve Gauge Justice”, as Boris previously said, would not look out of place Oppressing the Masses. It reminds me of what “World in a World” would sound like without the mid-paced beginning part. Although I enjoy that song more, this one is definitely a rager that thrash fans will enjoy. “Colour of Life” is a three-minute classic Vio-lence number, and there’s not really any other way to describe it. Fast and furious; definitely another one that will be received well by old fans of this band. “Pain of Pleasure/Virtues of Vice” builds up well into a monster thrasher that I would love to experience live, but that dream will never come true, heh. I’d say this song utilizes the change in Killian’s vocal style the best, and also utilizes the slow riffs best as a build-up to the second half of the song which thrashes away at full speed. “Ageless Eyes” is set at a pace somewhere between mid-paced and fast, and with Perry Strickland’s double bass in full form on this song, it is worthy to mention alongside the other fast numbers on the album. The solo/lead is executed quite well too.

If you old-time fans of this band will give the slower parts of this album their due, you’ll find that they work really well in building up to the faster sections, if anything. I’d definitely say this is a logical successor to Oppressing, with little surprises thrown in to maintain freshness.

I'd take this over many, many 1993 releases... never mind that it was recorded in 1991 when thrash was in better spirits. This is still a fucking solid thrash LP, it just suffers from the reputation established by its immediate predecessors. No, this isn't Eternal, or even Oppressing, but this still brings the riffs and brings them hard. Yes, this isn't as fast as those two, especially not Eternal, but even Oppressing had the solid punchy grooves and this just brings them more into the picture. This is definitely the next logical step after those two, and people are flat out wrong to dismiss it.

The song that everyone seems to remember here is Twelve Gauge Justice, but that's not even the real highlight... try Pain of Pleasure, Virtues of Vice, or Welcome Party, This is System (what the fuck is up with those two part titles? Who cares!) - both are raging monster thrashers that would not look out of place on Oppressing. Then Colour of Life is a monster speed rager that would even be an Eternal Nightmare staple if it had a few more solos. No, there aren't too many solos on here but nonetheless the riffs are still up there.

The album begins midpaced and heavy with Atrocity, which will not get Sean Killian any new fans, but will establish the solid sense of groove - imagine the buildup of I Profit (that or Priest's Burn in Hell!) except made longer, or the middle section of Officer Nice, and while the chorus is cheesy, the riffs under it are very fucking serious. Then, Twelve Gauge Justice has another gang chorus and is the setlist staple from here, though it's really not the greatest song on here... the aforementioned highlights are, though overall there really are no weak songs on here.

What's so great about this album? It's an awesome combination of the fast and the midpaced - after the speeding (at least at the end) Virtues of Vice, we have the groove machine Killing my Words, which is the heaviest song on here and doesn't descend into Machine Head stupidity... that's the whole idea behind the album, to display a solid sense of groove without sacrificing the thrash. It's not hyperfast, but it's still excellent. The worst Vio-lence album but that's just a testament to their first two. All three are worth owning.